traditional ‘guru’ has so to say delegated all that can be and has updated himself into new avathar, internet, wiki pedias and distant edu,–

he still had to initiate you to take you into his fold!

–sir

1 who taught you computer/internet? sure ,someone , not you entered directly into this it world!

2 did you learn to ride bycycle by your self, or did someone help you

  

 Resorting to a guru, today in the 21st century may be anachronistic?''

in any age, there has been/will be a need of a guide, who/which can be in any form, till the evolution of the being reaches a point when he will not have any doubts about the basic questions of life, which is called self realized state or most evolved state

he will not be in need of books or teachers , he being himself a book, himself a teacher

proof of pudding–if the result is the enlightenment, let it happen in any way, with/without guru/book/guide/own effort or on its own.

let this be understood once that enlightenment is the end all and be all of life and it is a reality not an assumption/feeling/c​onjecture/mood

it is worth the life’s effort, priority no 1, very very serious matter, not a matter of stopping at study/debate/, it is a matter to be attained in reality.

it decides whether the life lived is a super success or utter failure, despite a thousand other attainments

 : 

| 

 

learning and teaching in speaking tree

From birth to death we are guided by the human guru in many forms

 
mother is the first guru, even cats teach the baby cats

there are several gurus , father, teachers, friends, relatives, but all have some attributes , some class, some level, .

guru is one who guides .

all knowledge and guidance is received from a number of knowledgeable humans ,

every one may not be the ideal or perfect teacher,

but has his place .
 

one moves forward graduating from one level of learning to higher level,

but all with the help of various gurus,

though they may be experts in one branch and do not know other branches so well .

we must take all available help from one and all, and help all others , though we may not be the perfect gurus ,

so i like forums ,venture to bring together all teachers and learners .

here simultaneously all are learning and all are teaching, appropriate to their levels and needs .

we are not waiting for one perfect teacher , from external or internal . we are proceeding to learn and teach in our respective abilities and knowledge 

In forums i find great teachings from the participants actively involved in showing many points of views on a single matter projected by one individual ,

thus the matter is enriched and becomes more useful and full, and broadening the vision of all readers,and particularly the vision of the writer , ,

he gaining enormous depth not himself has probed while he is writing the article.

 .

and if we ignore the label and badge aspects, we will be able to see the true worth of the content and will be able to supplement and complement it from our own perspective , this results in higher comprehension , and better utility

.
after seeing a few samples of writings i find that , sharing of views is helping a lot , and thus in a way ,we can see the guru coming live in the teachings and learnings by one and all . confirming the fact that guru is always in some form , in some place, and comes here in online ,so to say, in the form of writers and readers in their conversations,

and thus helps to arrive at higher level of knowledge ,

all not one man effort but the enthusiasm of all the participants irrespective of their merits or attainments .

and i like this great opportunity

Not all are experts in expressing plainly, there are novices there are great learned professors, 

but eventually all learn and grow , even thru committing mistakes initially, so undercurrents are bound to occur by default .

however,

at the other end, how one receives is one's concern and merit,. as can be seen in the variety of responses / replies in the debate

mainly because of extensive participation , every one has a chance here to speak ,what ever may be his ability /level/capacity , with richest variety of views ,with all birds tweeting , in their own way, 

relevant or not, intelligible or not, synchronous or not, palatable or not

incidentally,
all beings , including trees , are born with an ability, an urge, a necessity to ''speak up'',
even as child, even as baby creatures , even as tender plants, creepers,
responding and reacting to every encounter, the mode of ''speaking'' need not be only thru speech / thru mouth/ tongue / or thru audible sound , their body language ''speaks'' a lot, their looks, gestures, signs, frowns, smiles, sobs , contractions, convulsions, all ''speak'' volumes, irrespective of being heard or not , irrespective of being responded or not ,

but ,Yes....and speak we do!

 Teacher and Guru

 Difference between Teacher and Guru

teachers teaching subjects enabling us to pass exams, excel in the subjects, clarifying our doubts also are removing the ignorance in the chosen subjects

but

human being needs such a guidance that which can lead to enlightenment ,

here guru helps

 the word Guru. ‘Gu’ signifies darkness and ‘Ru’ denotes that which dispels darkness or ignorance (Gukaaro Andhakaarasya , Rukarasthannirodhakaha).

Basically he teaches how to go beyond the mind,  

Since ‘’manam eva manushyaanaam kaaranam bandha mokshah’’ mind is the cause for bondage and liberation’’

Thru the sadhana of meditation etc taught by guru one gains high purity in body mind nervous system rendering one to live blissful life with success

Hence along with education/career tasks, the spiritual knowledge and practice are needed

   the absolute necessity of a guru,''

is there, and it is being ****lfilled in nature, universally, continuously, nature has provided the tea****nd learning process and abilities internally, and externally .your examples clarify this.
''But as the learner 'grows', it moves away from 'teacher centred' to 'self centred' (book or computer centred?) way of learning.''
true , as the teacher and learner grow
1  need of external till the internal is kindled adequately
''aavo sadguru mere maname,
antharajyothi jagaavo swaami''
2  many gurus have success****lly made themselves dispensable, u****udio video
3  students now can learn things at desk top
4  the tendency of nature has been to make the beings as much self sufficient as possible, investing in to them enough intelligence from generations to generations, keeping the need of external teacher to the unavoidable bare minimum, for human in the form of conscience, the internal guru
''by watching others''
ie from external guru
'wanting' to swim. Nobody initiated
ie from internal guru
'Incidental learning, more enduring than formal learning'
learning endures by practice and teaching to others, no matter how learnt
we can take 'formal' as teacher cantered learning[external]and 'incidental' as teacher-less[internal]
Again, both you and I, (for that matter any two persons) can be a teacher to the other, making the learning faster by holding a 'thought mirror' to each other.
excellent perception, [good absorbers are good radiators, a law of heat transfer]
my teacher said, teacher learns from students more, than they learn from him , this is highly dynamic process of give and take
no one is a student or teacher exclusively, permanently
In all fields, including the so called “spiritual” this appears to be happening.
definitely, satsangs/spiritual interactions/discour​ses/book reading are consciously encouraged to accelerate this process
''If this point can be cleared, perhaps, a lot of traditionalism that prevents progress .. can be swept aside''
a master when tried to be modern to reach his knowledge to more and faster, a lot of traditionalism in those days did raise objection, which the master fortunately did not heed, the result was globally seen.
''Evolution might be the better word. But are we sure of all the nuances of the word?''
as i understand, Evolution is the word=prakruthi parinaam, better and better design of the species as generations pass, recycling the feed back of experience, to make them much more sustainable

Guru is one who imparts that knowledge/wisdom which removes all ignorance,

this is generally compared with the metaphor light that removes darkness

so thinking laterally
if a seeker succeeds in getting that pure wisdom 
which makes him free of all enigmas, mysteries, on life's vital issues, and clears all illusions,
and which makes him into a transformed individual empowered with heightened abilities
to lead his life successfully, intelligently, without suffering, misery, fear,without mistakes,
then 

we can say that he did succeed in getting a guru 

that guru could be any one , could be any thing, a person, a book, a course, a temple, a statue, a tree, a mountain, a river, 
or even nothing or none from out side, 
but himself, self help, self effort , self exploration, self experiment, self discovery, self observation even self invention without any body else intervention or interference, favor, 

that revelation can happen in sitting under a tree, or in home, while doing routine duties in office, even while driving on a bike, or in satsang, or in contact with a sage 

the point is, one got it or not
if yes, then he is success
if no, he must tread further

''stop not till the goal is reached'' being diligent, open to receive, open to self , open to others, fire of enthusiasm never going off, with sacrifices, with all the thorn pricks on the way

     na guror adhikaṃ tattvaṃ 

na guror adhikaṃ tapaḥ

tattva jñānāt paraṃ nāsti 

tasmai śrī gurave namaḥ 

There is no higher truth than the Guru,

no higher penance than (service to) the Guru, 

there is nothing higher than Realization of the Knowledge of the truth imparted by the Guru. 

My salutations to such a Gurudev, who is himself that very timeless truth (and who has taken up a form to bless his disciples like us with real knowledge).

-----------------------------

this sthothra, is a flow of heart ,

the shishya,  having had the glimpse of all-fulfilling absolute within , 

ie, his internal guru having been lit

----as a result of practicing the instruction taught by his guru,----

----and  having accessed the source of every thing worthwhile,within, ---

has become  immersed in the ecstasy,  is now seeing the  transcendental reality of his external guru 

as nothing but the same as the internal guru, the gyan jyothi 

and singing the glory of both together , the plane of reference becoming transparent, non existent 

Tattvam, tat tvam , that you 

ie, the essence, what that exists basically, fundamentally,and really, 

ie truth of existence of you / truth of existence of individual ,

or simply the truth 

when shishya experiences this truth, and since he could experience only with the help of guru , and comes to know that himself, and external guru are nothing but truth , he simply utters what he felt 

that is guru himself is the truth

hence there is no greater thing as guru 

so no greater thing than guru guidance 

so na guror adhikam tattvam 

applicable for external guru and internal guru both , they both merged, merged with his own self in essence, the truth 

hence 

My salutations to such a Guru, who is himself that very timeless truth (and who has taken up a form to bless his disciples like us with real knowledge. 

Devotee goes from form to formless, 

from visible to invisible, 

from relative to absolute, 

from earthly to heavenly 

from apara to para 

we see this transparent walk in the devotional songs of saints , 

and---- the reader too ----experiences such ecstasy 

in reading/ listening such expressions from great souls

atmagyan is such a vast knowledge requiring many many lives

 

atmagyan

is such a vast knowledge requiring many many lives of study and experimentation

...so the wise seer-scientists have made it most simple,

easy, gainable almost instantly, with ease,

within the comforts of home, they have given the know-how to gain

in the tradition of guru parampara, ,

no need for going to forest,

nor stand on head down,

nor waiting for years and decades.

..........what it is can be known thru direct experience only,

.

where as

the effects of /benefits of atmagyan are infinite,

can be elaborated in words songs, dance, art , and what not

..........caution……. scripture reading will not deliver it

......but gaining atmagyan , all scriptures will become superfluous like the primary school books for a learned professor

unfortunately , present times is in darkness except a few small candle lights some where

but not enough to illumine the world

hence crimes, problems, diseases, poverty, war ,violence, vices are repeating endlessly

 

no need to reinvent, atmagyan is now available worldwide thru internet communication and distant learning.

...only one has to be a little more serious in pursuing his inner urge to know atmagyan and take next step of finding a guide thru some exploration

On guru i say only one point to me he is just a spark, momentary ,

 

On guru i say only one point to me he is just a spark, momentary , all stories and facts about him , i just keep aside it is me who took that rare tiny momentary spark,  made it in to a just a little fire,  and then made it into a flame,  then a brilliant light,  a wild fire,  a everlasting all purpose divine medium for lighting  cooking  warmth  cleaning  burning  protecting,  and glad to say it is working in me, with me , around me,  in my surroundings ,in my universe with this authenticity i have become a phenomena myself getting flabbergasted at it no claims., no impression creating no seeking any name fame

 

Personally , am happy being simplest, sleeping on the mat on floor with 3 pairs of clothes my profile is nothing , none knows who i am, what my bio data where i am what things i did what achievements by me , what my email--all is secondary  i do not aspire anything , not after any gains One cannot conclude anything just reading a few casual rants, from me , there is ocean

Test is whether it delivers the results as needed or not------irrespective of '' others' ready made ''

 

Test is whether it delivers the results as needed or not------irrespective of '' others' ready made '' 

or '' made ready by oneself ''

traditions are meant to pass on the distilled wisdom generation after generation 

without the need to re-invent wheel, 

but to avail best from the received wisdom and improve up on it 

and give it forward to posterity

and 

with the availability of modern means of teaching and communication, 

now one need not have to go to forest in the gautham way , 

but can become a budha, sitting at home, 

with enlightenment having been made available packaged, home delivered, 

with after sale service ensured thru nearest local branches .

but doing the specified home work by the aspirant is a must in every case to reap the results

is the state of enlightenment real?

 

is the state of enlightenment real?

 

yes, very much

as real as switching on a high watt elec bulb

if you get a glimpse once a fraction of a second at least , 
you got it, if not forget it

 

guru gives this instantly, 
otherwise it may take years 
or many lives, and all the way in tears

 

'' does the person become enlightened forever''??

 

in the beginning enlightenment is just glimpses, 
gradually, expanding, becoming stable and eventually staying for ever

accelerated sadhana accelerates its growth expansion and stability of the state of enlightenment

guru shows how to do in the optimum speed 
Guru helps makes easy and fast, 
no need now to wait indefinitely just surmising, hoping

 

surrender or any prerequisites are not required 
none asks, none need to surrender

 

what is required is enlightenment
---get it ,own it and grow blissful, free

----source , or method no matter, 
result matters , not even talk on it like this

intuition is ''in'' tuition

 

intuition is ''in'' tuition

teaching of inner guru

interactions 1 self with guru ----------- brief---days/weeks

 

interactions

 

1 self with guru ----------- brief---days/weeks

 

2 self with self ------------  sufficiently long---months/couple of year

 

3 self with universe--------then the rest of life, life long

 

whoever lights the inner jyothi , really, truly  is guru

all can share wisdom a to z, but cannot light

if it lights, no further need exists to seek anything from any  man ,

i am not lighting it, in true sense

though i am writing what i found from inside.

hence i am no guru

 

such writings may clarify certain areas of knowledge, and serve partially, may inspire to seek totally from one's inside, and leads one to a guru, to get lit, thus to get enlightened in true sense

 

my writings are my joy,

if others find some little value in it it is joy doubled ,

Nahi nahi rakshathi duk run karani

 

Nahi nahi rakshathi duk run karani

all the nuances of words, finesse of grammar , beauty of expression . paandithya prakarsha will not save you

do not get stuck go beyond the words to reach at that real essence that all words trying to convey

what seeker has to do is to seek , earliest , the guidance of sathguru, who shows the way to do sadhana on right lines, and then proceed diligently, sincerely, doing sadhana regularly

so that sadhana ends in saphalatha , in the shortest time ,

life gets illumined all along with bliss and all the divine glory ,

knowledge blossoming inside with thousand petal,

not needing to read a million books ,

but delivering the great wisdom from within , that can brighten the lives of millions , rising himself in the capacity of jagathguru eventually

i emphasize, on right guidance

without a sufficiently long rope, the bucket can not reach the deep waters in the well , though he may put life long efforts , the bucket comes out empty every time

What is the minimum needed is a tiniest spark which lights up the inner lamp

It should be the real spark, not the look alike, glowworm

Once it lights up the lamp , it has done the job. it’s task is over

Now it is up to the sadhak to pursue, preserve, intensify the light of the lamp ,

to add the fuel of sustained, intense sadhana thru which that lamp becomes a flame,

becomes grown into a wild fire ,far excelling the tiny spark ,

thus become a brighter light, increasing day by day,

eventually to be able to light up many more lamps, all lamps . thus illumine the universe

sadhak can grow to any height, it is in his hands.

he has options to put in the efforts or even to put off the light

primary teacher teaches alphabets

student will learn and joins a high school, a college, a university,

will become a professor,

far excelling the primary teacher

but he must learn the alphabets

if he drops out at any stage, none of his teachers can help

if he pursues, growth is limitless

so

1 right guidance

2 sincere efforts

both are required,

but results will be in proportion to inputs ,

guru will not carry shishya on piggy back

Resorting to a guru

 Resorting to a guru, today in the 21st century may be anachronistic. I am not questioning the need of a 'research guide'. He guides you to the right books or other references. But that person is a far cry from the Vedic guru, possibly''

in any age, there has been/will be a need of a guide, who/which can be in any form, till the evolution of the being reaches a point when he will not have any doubts ****ut the basic questions of life, whi**** called self realized state or most evolved state
he will not be in need of books or teachers , he being himself ****ok and teacher
proof of pudding--if the result is the enlightenment, le**** happen in any way, with/without guru/book/guide/own eff****r on its own.
let this be understood once that enlightenment is the end all and be all of life and it is a reality not an assumption/feeling/c​onjecture/mood
it is worth the life's effort, priority no 1, very very serious matter, not a matter of stopping at study/debate/, it is a matter to be attained in reality.
it decides whether the life lived is a super success or utter failure, despite a  thousand other attainments

Sathguru   is one

in every guru, god, god-man,
man, animal, bird,
tree, insect, stone, water, air,

and in every being and in every thing
and in every phenomena in the universe

I am learning the maximum from the least insignificant encounters,
with any one or any thing
or any message heard or not heard
i am 100% sure i will not find even one false guru
any where on earth, oceans, sky, or in any of higher worlds

Now my guru is helping me to pray for every guru,
i am learning a lot from him to go into the depths of every guru

the word guru itself is sadguru
What a great word guru is !

i am guru
you are guru
every one is guru

also
i am shishya
you are shishya
every one is shishya

all roads lead to goal.

all roads lead to goal.

……it is all a walk on a pathless path

…. to a goalless goal

.jk, ramana, and many similar others are similar with ” just a little higher perception ”

.. but trying to convey that experience of awareness thru words that can never fully convey

….so interesting to read and enjoy their words

, …but they cannot guide the seekers to a systematic direct experience of that state of pure awareness

……and seeker just stays strayed wondering at what to do ”be’

‘..this is the limitation of these saints which are not guided thru a systemstic pure guru parampara

..such talks remain talks , endless,

…..since i have seen vast difference that makes

….if with guru and ,if without guru

…….hence i feel always gratitude in praise of guru and gutu parampara, for showing me a most easy way, …jai guru dev

timely right guidance

 timely right guidance from expert masters 
makes the hardest, longest, toughest, journey 
into most enjoyable, playful, performance, 
enabling to reach the goal earliest, surest, 
skipping all the wrong moves 
and saving the most valuable time, energy, resources
right guidance is surely the help direct from god

Pranam to guruji

Pranam to guruji , pranam to shishyaji, 
both of you are supreme, all are god, 

i claim
i proclaim

quest is god ,question is god, 
answer is god, silence is god

acceptance is god rejection is god
understanding is god, puzzle is god

mystery is god 
mastery is god 

every impulse, every thought, every action, 
every process, every phenomena 

in every form, in any form 
from subtlest to grossest

including

'' breathing, eating, drinking and defecating''
from birth to death , before and after ,

as is, where is, how is, why is, when is 
all is part of supreme, hence is supreme

all the powers of supreme unleashed 
in part or in whole, in whole sale, or in retail 

a small matter , it's detail, yet all a tell-tale
unbegun, unending is his tale

all or none

all or none

this is right

----in pursuite of one, / or a few, you will lose infinite

rishi prabhakar says--if nothing is yours, every thing is yours—

it is that some thing however small or trivial, or valuable even ,

that is the greatest hindrance to get at the ''everything'' ,  the infinite ,

the ownership over the universe—

even the great alexander found that he was a real failure at the end of all the glorious conquests

this enlightenment dawns quickly on a few

slowly on some

and will not dawn in majority

hence the world is after the ''small little many ''

at the cost of ''biggest one ''

alas ! a very bad bargain , miserably

struggling all life for every thing,

losing the vital one thing